Global Fandom Conversation Series: Aianne Amado (Brazil) and Simone Driessen (The Netherlands)
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Local yet global?
AA: Now, as for the overlapping of localness with international culture consumption, both José Martin-Barbero and Pierre Bourdieu can offer noteworthy explanations: they defend that everyday life aspects such as family, religion, education, social class etc. impact directly how we, individually and collectively, understand each object. When centering “mediation” to the discussion, Martin-Barbero contests those who say that globalization will “kill” local culture and traditions, arguing that local experiences also implicates how those products are target and consumed in different cultures (thinking about so many american artists singing in spanish for the latin audience) and, therefore, it is not as much of a “cultural domination” as it is a “cultural trade” (though, evidently, not equitable).
In that sense, I also think it is important to talk about how our local cultural objects shape and are shaped by globalization. To start with Brazil, it is visible how American pop culture inspires our content, like the country's main divas such as Anitta and Pabllo Vittar, and also our new TV productions, that are moving away from the telenovela model and approaching the mainstream series format. However, the inspiration does not take over the whole product: even in her english and spanish songs, many featuring international singers, Anitta adds elements of Brazilian music genres (likeBahia’s percussion and Rio’s mpb and, the genre that made her famous, funk); Pabllo Vittar blends perfectly pop beats with regional styles, making even the one and only Lady Gaga sing to “arrocha”; and Netflix’s Invisible City incorporates the platform narrative format to tell the story of local folklore’s characters. And it is not a coincidence that all of these examples have experienced great public reception, since strategies like those captivate even Brazilians who once had a strong preference over international culture.
On the other hand, Brazilian pop culture also has its share of transnational fandoms – avid consumers of productions that, mostly through the internet, discover new texts and interact with other local or global fans. Nevertheless, the “localness” is, once again, very much present: telenovelas like O Clone, Vale Tudo, Fina Estampa and A Escrava Isaura are so well received that they are bought and remade in different countries. Recreations are also common in songs, like the Englishand Spanish version of Ai, Se Eu Te Pego; the various covers of Garota de Ipanema; Black Eyed Peas’ remix of Mais Que Nada; and the Japanese remake of Chorando Se Foi. And I ask myself the same questions you did in your piece: “how were these fans able to follow these Brazilian, Portuguese-speaking and -singing texts when the fans’ main language was different? Moreover, why were those Brazilian contents so successful in such different countries?”
What do you think of those examples? Do you know any of them? I am also curious to know if there are similar cases in the Netherlands that could corroborate this line of thought. Although I am not an expert, I know that your country is responsible for many globally acclaimed reality tv shows like The Voice and Big Brother, for example. Why do you think that genre stands out? And how do you see the fans of such shows differentiate from one country to another?
SD: You mention how globalization is of influence in Brazil, but not all-dominating. I wonder if Brazil also has a strong media production ecosystem. Like J-Pop or K-Pop, besides so many excellent talents from Brazil (like Anitta), B-Pop or whatever it could be called, does not seem to reach far. Is that partially due to language again? Or because these artists or films also have ‘enough’ by just reaching the Brazilian market? I’m fascinated by the idea of cultural trade and how this is present in both our cases: it is definitely present, and perhaps increasing in the Dutch media landscape. But before diving into that, let me present to you two Dutch versions of Ai, Se Eu Te Pego: one that somewhat follows an original translation of the Brazilian lyrics, and one that is more freely interpreted, even using Spanish in it over Portuguese. The original song was quite popular in the Netherlands, in its original form and people really tried to sing along in Portuguese. So, perhaps that is already somewhat telling of how open the Dutch are to cultural trade.
I think we spot a similar pattern in the Netherlands when it comes to ‘somewhat resembling the American / Hollywood formula, but with a local touch’ than the one you mention to be present in Brazil. Yes, also in the Netherlands, because it’s such a small country we have many cultural objects taking after a ‘global’ model. As a music researcher, I think this is very visible in how bands perform and create videos, particularly those with international fan bases (singing in English too), like pop rockers Kensington, or Chef Special, or the more metal/goth subcultural act Within Temptation.
When talking about music, things are somewhat different: here the local is surely influenced by the global. Yet, there are also some unique trends to point to. The Netherlands is a very diverse society, with many cultures living in a small country. And although Dutch hiphop/rap is one of the most popular genres (which comes with its own set of fans…), at times artists singing in another language do have a breakthrough. Currently, singer Rolf Sanchez, who sings in Spanish is quite popular. That is remarkable, for Spanish is not such a common language for the Netherlands.
Yet, what all these examples we exchange here also demonstrate, is that yes indeed we are under influence of globalization! But apparently the consumers (the fans!) are also demanding some streak of authenticity or perhaps relatability or recognition in them. Is that then where the local becomes important or, at the very least, becomes visible? Would this be why artists like Anitta or Pabllo Vittar, but for the Dutch also those artists combining music with Dutch lyrics (I will add some examples!) are so popular? And has this always been the case? How do you see that reflecting on our discussion and the Brazilian examples mentioned?
You briefly mentioned the Reality TV show formats, Big Brother, The Voice... we apparently are also able to inspire other countries to copy those formulas (that sounds bold: but those formulas have become global successes). I wonder how they differ in Brazil: are the fans equally as co-productive and active in indeed engaging with them? I feel that The Voice (when it was broadcasted/ whenever it is broadcasted) gains many many followers, but not really a big hit talent anymore. Is that due to fans being saturated with such shows? Or perhaps the fans are growing younger?
Nevertheless, one of the biggest hit shows at the moment in the Netherlands (actually it’s a co-production with Belgium) is shaped very much like an American series, maybe you have seen it: Undercover. So, here the cultural trade is visible once more. But also, this co-exists with our Dutch, very local soap operas.
AA: So, as I see it, our music industries differ in a few points. It is unusual for us to hear big local songs in other languages (the exception being Anitta’s current international career, but mostly because the fans want to support her even if they do not necessarily know how to sing the songs). I wonder if it has to do with English being taught broadly in the Netherlands (I remember having no trouble at all communicating with Dutchs while I was there!).
I also loved to know the Dutch have a very local soap-opera culture. I believe the soap-opera format, based directly in everyday life, makes it the least likely to yield to international production standards and it makes a great counterpoint to foreign influences.
That leads to your questions: In Brazil we have Globo, our most popular TV channel and one of the biggest media conglomerates in the world. Because of them, Brazil is a powerhouse in the entertainment industry. A huge part of our cultural production is permeated by it, but their main products are still telenovelas. So, were the few B-pop groups that (prematurely) existed active today, in the BTS era, Globo would make sure to sign them in every live audience program and with special appearances in many telenovelas, therefore, being embraced by mainstream media.
The reach provided by the conglomerate (and now more and more by the internet as well) is also why we can look at the local market as “enough” for many artists. To keep using the music industry as an example, while the Brazilian pop genre is heavily influenced by its American counterpart, the genres that are currently topping the charts are the most “local” ones, such as Sertanejo and Funk. Those artists benefit from a market that has the usual hardcore Brazilian fans but also hundreds of thousands of ordinary consumers that are just happy to hear and sing the song occasionaly. To become a global phenomenon is a dream of many, but only a few are able to do such a thing and when they do, it is always a much-acclaimed feat - Michel Telo’s Ai Se Eu Te Pego is one of the most recent cases. Case in point, I for one was amazed and consumed by a bit of patriotism with the videos you showed me (thank you so much, by the way!). It is this weird mix of “wait, this language does not quite match this rhythm” and “oh! they are enjoying something I have lived with all my life”.
I agree with your point of view about fans demanding authenticity and relatability while still inserting themselves and their idol globally and I think it is a claim that has been emerging with the shortening of borders made possible by new media - specially streaming platforms and Tik Tok’s viral contents. And the Reality Tv Shows are great illustrations of that (and yes, we all agree that those formulas are a global success!) since every country changes a few details here and there to adjust to what its population would most likely accept.
SD: Aianne, I think that last part in your reflection is precisely what we see in the Netherlands too: the ordinary consumer is actually driving the market, while the hardcore fans are responsible for pushing that success of artists abroad. Still, it’s fascinating how language pops up over and over in the experiences of fans. It can be helpful, or even vital, to actually learn a new language to fully enjoy a fannish experience.
That also brings us to these points of authenticity and relatability once more. Due to the global nature of media products, fandoms grow into global communities as well. Also that’s a feat not just tied to Brazil or the Netherlands, but I’m pretty sure you Brazilians also had the Squid Game craze recently, and probably have tons of BTS fans, despite having such a strong media conglomerate locally! I think our examples and discussion here shows how fandom is able to break boundaries, yet with the critical note that this doesn’t happen for all fans (those who aren’t able or willing to learn a new language if needed, or those who don’t have the monetary means to travel or participate / spend time in fannish activities in different time zones for examples). Still, I do feel that the Brazilian and Dutch fans we see in our exchange are highly active and open-minded in their fan practices. Perhaps that’s a different scenario when we go beyond the world of media entertainment and look at the highly competitive field of sport?
The Unique position of sports fans?
AA: That is a great question! It would feel wrong to end this without talking about something that truly unites our two universes: sports fans. We have our own “green and yellow” army to compete with your orange one! In times as divisive as now, sports and worldwide competitions like the Olympic Games are always something that can unite a nation. It is an opportunity to show the world how outstanding we are, and we let our disagreements slide to root and bring home the titles. Yet, there is something more than mere nationalism and maybe it is how we can relate and empathize more with athletes that share some of our backgrounds, that we know first-hand where they came from. So, we circle back to the importance of localness even in the most global event on Earth.
SD: That’s beautifully said about sports fandom: that we perhaps are more tied to the athletes, and we feel their struggle maybe even because we know where they came from. Also, because it perhaps is the only thing to unite both old and young, and people from different classes and regions, in an event like the World Football Championships, or the Olympics.
That also then brings me back to studying fans. Here, in the Netherlands, I have the slightest feeling we’re starting to accept fandom more and more. It becomes easier to say, ‘I’m a fan of’, whereas a few years ago being a fan was either 1) childish, or 2) nerdy. I think that this development aligns somewhat with the rising popularity, or perhaps normalization of what can be called ‘nerd culture’ (e.g., shows like The Big Bang Theory and its spin-off Young Sheldon). And a more prominent position of ‘scientists’ in the entertainment media. Yet, ‘old’ fans are still taboo. In sports, it’s accepted, but in pop fandoms it’s looked down on. To give you an example, every winter the whole of the Netherlands goes crazy with the potential outlook they are able to ice skate again in nature (a frozen river or meadow). And they all turn into ‘fans’ of some ice skater, or sports figure. But when my Backstreet Boys interviewees talk about their fandom, they’re deemed to be weird or even crazy. Can you tell me if in Brazil things are more accepted for adult fans? And how can we, as scholars in academic institutions, perhaps put fandom more on the societal and scientific agenda?
AA: The scenario you presented is very similar here in Brazil, as we in fact are more and more incorporating the term in our everyday vocabulary. In my perspective, the issue here was not only about age, but also about social capital in general. “Fans” tends to be more associated with mass and popular culture - so you can be a “fan” of a famous TV show or internet sensation, whereas those who relish classical music icons or cult movies would call themselves “enthusiasts” or “passionate” (even though all of them basically share the same feelings). Another semantic matter is that sports fans have a different name here, “torcedores” (equivalent to “supporters”), and therefore the association with fans, even academically, is less frequent than in other countries. And while I believe that media is now incorporating the title “fan” and its derivations as a desired, more engaged and committed audience, drifting from the childish/nerdy association, it is still a challenge to us, scholars, to contribute profoundly to that very necessary recognition - considering that, at least in Latin-American countries, we are still fighting for mere academic acceptance.
Our exchange led me to the inevitable conclusion that no other nationality (and, within this partition, ethnicity, gender or age group) sees an idol the same way. It can be something specific, like the east European love for Brazilian telenovelas, or a global phenomena like Harry Potter or Backstreetboys: local culture will play a crucial part in how we “read” those texts (language-wise and more!). However, it is interesting to point out a fundamental contradiction: we read those texts “locally” while looking for and preferring international objects, since, at the same time, we also want to be part of the “global”. This is an exciting debate that could go on for ages! It will certainly reshape my future research. I thank you deeply for the chance to share all these ideas, examples and theories.
SD: We indeed learn from our exchanges that every culture still has their own take on cultural products. Culture is never neutral in that way. And localness plays such an important role as a lens through which we’re making sense of these phenomena!
