Global Fandom Jamboree Conversation Series: Aianne Amado (Brazil) and Simone Driessen (The Netherlands) (Part One)
/AA: Querida Simone,
I was fascinated to learn more about fandoms in the Netherlands and most of all to observe so many similarities between Dutch and Brazilian fan cultures, which I was not expecting. Brazilian and Latin-American historians argue that our devotion for contemporary cultures from hegemonic countries are mainly due to our extremely exploitative colonization. While I do agree that this process had and still has a direct impact over our social political context, which includes culture reception, your statement made me question the actual force of this imprint. For what I know - and please correct me if I’m wrong - the Netherlands were on the colonizer side, having even colonies in Brazil for a brief period. So how come both of those countries ended up with such similar transnational culture behavior? What are your thoughts on that? And I wonder if you could share some historic input about your country that you believe could lead to this affection towards foreign texts.
Furthermore, you raise an intriguing point of view by centering the transnational fandom discussion in the duality of local practices and language in the general scenario of globalization. Those are indeed two defining matters for those fandoms and shape almost every interaction between its members or with the idols themselves. Regarding the language, I wonder how many fans all over the globe have learned a new one because of their beloved text (I certainly am one of them!). But moreover, I found it fascinating how this was also a factor that could bring together Dutch fans from different age groups, which is quite exceptional for me. Here in Brazil, it is almost the opposite: adult fans tend to snub and disdain younger fans, thinking that being associated with a fandom with kids could somehow influence their social capital. Also, the “dubbing x subtitles” dilemma here is much more a question of class: since we unfortunately still have a high percentage of illiterate or semi-literate people in the lower classes, those tend to prefer dubbed content, while those of higher classes prefer subtitles (which can easily be noticed with dubbed movies in on open TV and subtitled on cable).
SD: Dear Aianne,
It’s indeed fascinating to see how alike our countries are when it comes to fandom. Yet, for such a vast country as Brazil and such a small, condensed country like the Netherlands, I am not surprised to hear how local languages and practices have great influence on fannish practices. Let me also use that observation to return to your first questions here, how come both Brazil and the Netherlands ended up with such similar transnational culture behavior? As you point out, the Netherlands were indeed one of Brazil’s colonizers (and of some other countries as well). The Dutch set sail for the first time in the 17th century for Brazil, as part of their world exploration. After the Second World War the Dutch even founded a village called ‘HolAmBra’, to express a cooperation between the countries (and Am for America). But I’m not fully equipped to offer a historical overview of this process. The Dutch often laud themselves for their “VOC-mentality”, which comes down to a drift for exploring new places (also conveniently ignoring the consequences of this exploration drift and completely ignoring the colonization process). To bring that to a fandom context (again, forgive me for not diving deep into the critical debate there): this exploration mindset is still present. The Dutch still travel to visit concerts, also because the country is often skipped in ‘global tours’ (how global are they then?). This way they also consider travelling as part of their fandom.
I find it interesting how you considered this in your description in light of Brazil’s colonization being a reason for why the Brazilians can be so devoted to pop culture from hegemonic countries. I would love to hear more about this, also considering more and more Brazilian products crossing borders due to streaming services like Netflix and Spotify. That also makes me wonder about what language you’ve learned to participate in a fandom from abroad? It’s interesting that dubbing in Brazil is a matter or question of class: as you point out, the more ‘affluent’ audiences are catered for by offering subtitles, which also is a very visible signifier of being able to potentially follow something in an original language. I never thought of it in this way, as for us, the subtitles have always been there. The only exception I can think of is children’s media: cartoons, or kids movies - they are dubbed, or original Dutch creations. How is that in Brazil?
AA: I appreciate your explanation about the Netherlands during imperialism. Can you believe that, talking about that with my father, he told me that his great grandfather was Dutch? He came here with his family for one of the colonies in the Northeast. Is there a chance we can be two long-lost-pop-culture-fans-cousins?
The connection you made about the foreign explorer spirit of the Dutch is extremely perspicacious and makes great sense. By reflecting on that, I came to the thought that perhaps it is not only the role in the colonization itself, but also - and maybe more so - the hegemonic place the country falls in. Of course that nations with dominant economies, languages and governments like the US and Japan have many transnational and transcultural fandoms as well, but the impact it has culturally cannot be compared to what happens in countries like ours. Thinking critically about that, we can identify both a consistency and a contradiction: the consistency is that, in order to claim their hegemonic status, those states had to invest extensively in their cultural sectors, aiming to establish their lifestyles as standards of superiority, locally and globally (contrasting with the lack of public investment in arts and entertainment industries, at least here in Brazil). And the contradiction is that the non-hegemonic countries, those who are potentially more susceptible to their cultural texts, are often left out when it comes to promoting those objects - as you pointed out with the “global” tours example.
SD: I fully agree with that Aianne, again that consistency and contradiction is also what strikes me in researching fans. On the one hand, fans appropriate their fandom (local fan clubs, local meetups and initiatives) or it is appropriated via the industry, e.g., by a translation of a book or a movie. But on the other hand, fans also heavily engage with these original products which seems to affirm the hegemonic status of these super pop-culture powers (e.g., the US, but also indeed Japan). Still, I wonder, Brazil as such a vast country, with so much playing field in the Global South, we rarely see cultural products cross borders. Might language be an element again? We were discussing how that was such a prominent element for the Dutch to be able to engage with cultural goods from across the world. But for the Brazilians this remains to come with a certain sense of position and capital in society if I read your response correctly. How did you experience that yourself?
AA: Well, I can guarantee you that we are only having this great exchange because I was once a Friends’ fan. I’ve watched the same episodes so many times that it occurred to me that I would probably still remember and understand the scenes if I switched it to the original language, and that is how I learned most of English. Most of my friends also have learned it through TV shows, movies or songs. In my research, I also found Brazilian otakus who became fluent in Japanese without ever having a class on the language. But one thing everyone agrees: classical kids movies and tv shows are always better in the dubbed version!G
